In this interview, Brian Chesemore, Director of Student Care at Sovereign Grace Pastors College, shares valuable perspectives on cultivating virtues essential for pastoral ministry. Topics include character development, virtues like joy, gratitude, and humility, and practical advice for aspiring pastors.
Ricky Alcantar: Man, well, welcome to this special interview with Brian Chesemore. So here’s Brian, what I’m going to have you do is just say—no, no, no, no, I was making sure I had my notes up. Yeah, that would be bad.
Brian Chesemore: Did you forget my name there? Special guest guy I’ve been really waiting to interview. Who is he?
Ricky Alcantar: Well, brother, I have to say this: My PC class was known for many things, but one thing we were particularly notable for was one of the brothers who was assigned to pray for the guest instructor or the instructor every week. He launched into prayer and it became very quickly apparent he could not remember the instructor’s name. He’s like, “just Lord, we just pray for our brother”.
Brian Chesemore: Yep. Painful.
Ricky Alcantar: “…our brother who has come to serve us”. It was painful and it became obvious. The more he tried to remember, the more it was bad. So here’s what I’m going to do, Brian: I’m going to have you introduce yourself and just say your name, your title, and what you do for the PC. Go ahead.
Brian Chesemore: Yeah. Great. Hi, my name is Brian Chesemore. I have the privilege of serving as the Director of Student Care in the Sovereign Grace Pastors College. This role was filled by Gary Rucucci for about 17 years, I think. He served the Pastors College so faithfully, so effectively with Betsy by his side. I tell him these are massive shoes that I flop around in, that I won’t ever fill, but that’s what I get to do.
Ricky Alcantar: That’s great, man. Give us quickly how long you’ve been in this role at the PC, and then how many years you’ve been in pastoral ministry in general, if you could estimate.
Brian Chesemore: I’ve had the joy of doing this Director of Student Care role for the last four years. Prior to that, I’ve been in ministry full-time with Sovereign Grace since about 2003. I graduated from the Pastors College after its first year, in ’98. I went out on a church plant for four and a half years, newly married, with Kristin by my side. I wasn’t on staff full-time; I was just working in the Chicago area and helping a church get started. After four and a half years, we relocated back to Maryland, and I was able to go on staff full-time in 2003. So I’ve been in full-time ministry for the better part of about 23 years.
Ricky Alcantar: My goodness, man. Love it.Theological Development vs. Character Development
Ricky Alcantar: This month we’re highlighting our virtues in Sovereign Grace churches. Ordination standards can test for theological values—if someone knows the Bible on a basic level and holds our values of theology—but virtues are much harder to test for. The audience for this is Sovereign Grace pastors who are training up and stewarding men as they explore ministry. What happens if we train men theologically, but that theological development is not met or matched with character development?
Brian Chesemore: That’s a sobering thought. The Bible calls us to “watch our lives and doctrine closely”. To only do half of that would be a failure to obey the biblical requirements. Doctrine is meant to shape our character and make us Christ-like. I remember CJ saying that pastoring is a character profession. We are expected to say to those coming up after us, like Paul said to Timothy, “You’ve not only followed my doctrine, but you’ve watched my life”. Our people want to know that this person is applying the Word of God to their own life. We don’t want to produce guys who can teach sound doctrine but are in danger of being puffed up by what they know and fail to apply it.Character vs. Personality
Ricky Alcantar: The New Testament’s emphasis is on character requirements first. In the PC, you see a lot of different personalities. Sometimes we give ourselves a pass by saying, “I just don’t have that personality type”. How do you help guys sort through what is required regardless of personality and what still must be present?
Brian Chesemore: Personality is what we are more naturally prone towards. Character is the stuff of hard work. It requires pressing into the grace of God and being exposed for a character deficiency. When you match up the way you relate to others versus what the Scriptures teach, you see yourself falling short—impatience, arrogance, anger, or selfishness. This requires taking the Word of God seriously, applying it to our lives, and asking God to help us repent and grow.
When a guy comes into the PC, we walk alongside him for 10 months to find out what ways he believes God wants to see Christ formed further in him. Every week over lunch, guys have an unhurried time of an hour and a half to just be with each other, eat their lunch together, and just talk about what’s going well, what’s going hard. It’s a chance for them to encourage one another, speak the truth, and help guys along in their sanctification.
Ricky Alcantar: If I’m hearing you right, there is nobody who doesn’t have to sacrifice or press in. The sacrifice and growing in Christ-likeness is for everyone.
Brian Chesemore: Yes, that’s right. Character is a hard-won quality that won’t come naturally.Pitfalls for Aspiring Young Men
Ricky Alcantar: What advice and cautions would you offer pastoral teams trying to steward young men who are zealous but perhaps not tempered yet?
Brian Chesemore: I love interacting with young guys who sense a call to ministry. Here are two categories of pitfalls:
- Aspiration Over Character: The desire for ministry is great, but serious character deficiencies need to be addressed first. Ask: Would your fellow church members commend you for ministry because of your character? The local church must help these guys cultivate character and godliness so they can be commended for the pursuit of pastoral ministry.
- Aspiration Over Affirmation: This is having the internal sense of a call when the external affirmation is not there. The ones who stand out as most impressive are the guys who are not in a hurry. Humility and a willingness to trust God for affirmation through other people is a safeguard that commends a man for his integrity, humility, and patience. A guy who says, “My wife’s not sure, so I don’t want to move ahead yet,” or, “Not all of my pastors are sure” displays this.
Ricky Alcantar: Impatience regarding being able to do ministry is pretty common.
Brian Chesemore: Those who are waiting often face great opportunities to test their character and trust that God is working out His good plans, even if the immediate opportunity post-PC is foggy. God never wastes a moment. He uses it all redemptively to further position a man to be effective in serving the Church of God.Check Engine Lights for the Seven Shaping Virtues
Ricky Alcantar: I’d love to walk through the seven shaping virtues and hear any “check engine lights”—signs that mean you should pause, have a conversation, and ask questions.
Brian Chesemore: As long as the big qualifier is, “what do I have that I’ve not received?”. If there’s any discernment, it’s the grace of God coming through in large measure through the men that have been over me and around me who have provided that discernment and helped me get sharper.1. Humility
Ricky Alcantar: Excellent, man. All right. Number one is the area of humility. Does anything come to mind in terms of a check engine light to maybe keep an eye out for as brothers develop guys?
Brian Chesemore: I think a check engine light would be they can’t laugh at themselves. We want to take ministry seriously, but not take ourselves too seriously. Excelling at laughing at ourselves is a healthy sign of humility and helps us get our eyes off ourselves and onto Christ and others.2. Joy
Ricky Alcantar: Humility and joy, those two go together really, really tightly. But in the area of joy, would there be a check engine light that you would point out in that area?
Brian Chesemore: I remember CJ quoting the Psalm, “serve the Lord with gladness”. The check engine light is labor that is characterized by seriousness, not gladness. If a man excels in his tasks but is not happy in the Lord, I would explore if he is preaching the gospel to himself. We want to make sure even the serious guys are living in the good of the gospel.3. Gratitude
Ricky Alcantar: Third one, let’s hit is gratitude. What might be a check engine light in the area of gratitude for you?
Brian Chesemore: I see it show up when I’m carrying cares rather than casting them and I’m more anxious than grateful. Guys who are heavy of heart and preoccupied with their cares gravitate towards being Martha rather than Mary. Guys who live with their conversion story close to their mind and heart are consistently grateful (Psalm 103: forget not all his benefits).4. Encouragement
Ricky Alcantar: The overflow of that gratitude is the next virtue, encouragement. What might be a check engine light there?
Brian Chesemore: The check engine light would be impatience with others or a quickness to highlight deficiency over grace. The diagnostic question is: Are you more aware of evidences of grace or areas in need of growth in the lives of people around you? The warning sign is a self-righteous “come on, let’s get this together” attitude or a lack of quickness to highlight grace.5. Generosity
Ricky Alcantar: Next one would be generosity. What might be just a question mark in that area for you?
Brian Chesemore: The check engine light is preoccupation with one’s own to-do list. A generous heart is attuned to the needs of others and burdened to step toward it and provide. When a guy is preoccupied with his to-do list, he’s not quick to see it, slow down, pause, or move towards somebody in their need, whether financial or spiritual.6. Servanthood
Ricky Alcantar: A related one would be servanthood. What would be some check engine lights in that area for you?
Brian Chesemore: The check engine light is preoccupation with position or personal interests. An inability to rejoice in others who get a “dream position” or opportunity is a revealing moment. We should be able to rejoice with those who rejoice. A guy concerned for his own interests, welfare, or position raises concerns.7. Godliness
Ricky Alcantar: Last would be godliness. What are some warning signs that a man does not have an appropriate intentionality or consistent growth in the area of godliness?
Brian Chesemore: The warning light that came to mind is a guy who is growing in skills but not applying the same level of intentionality with his own heart. This is excellence in dealing with externals (ministry execution, leadership, counseling) but sloppiness in dealing with his own heart when concerns are raised by his brothers. It draws us back to the need to cultivate a fear of the Lord. Do we take indwelling sin seriously and recognize the call to be better at taking our own hearts to task?
Ricky Alcantar: Excellent, man. The Pastors College model is unique because men are equipped by day for theological values but receive investment in the virtues and character of ministry in the afternoons and at lunchtimes. That character is what Paul emphasizes first every time. I’m just so grateful for you guys. Thank God for you.
Brian Chesemore: Well, thank you, Ricky.