Recorded live at KELP Studios in El Paso, Texas. Audio and Video Courtesy Desert Voice Media . September 2025. Used with Permission
The following is an edited transcript of an interview on 915 Talk, a production of Desert Voice Media, broadcast from the KELP studio in El Paso. Guest host Ricky Alcantar sat down with David Zimmer, head of production and promotion for Sovereign Grace Music. The conversation has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Ricky: David does a lot of things I probably won’t get all the way right: musician, music leader, vocalist, songwriter, head of promotion for Sovereign Grace Music, head of production for Sovereign Grace Music. Today we’re going to ask him some questions our listeners and church folks have probably always wondered — like, where does a worship song come from? For most of us, it just appears on Sunday morning when the band plays it. How do you actually write a worship song? Why is it important that the church sings when it gathers — can’t we just do a warm-up song and move on to the preaching? And does it matter if we sing on Sunday if we’re not good singers?
We’re going to talk about all of that and get a behind-the-scenes look at Sovereign Grace Music, a ministry with more than 30 years of history writing songs for the local church. So, David, take us behind the curtain. Please give a warm Borderland welcome to our friend, David Zimmer.
David: Well, that was an impressive speech — and an impressive round of applause.
Ricky: Is this your first time in the Sun City, David, or have you been through before?
David: I’ve been through before, but I never got to actually see the city and drive around it, so this was awesome.
Ricky: Good — and you’ve got some local coffee in your hand, I see. We’re going to talk music today, worship music specifically. You’re on staff with Sovereign Grace Music — tell our listeners what that is.
David: First of all, this is awesome to be here — thank you for having me, and I can’t wait for the weekend, it’s going to be a lot of fun. Sovereign Grace Music is an extension of our church denomination, Sovereign Grace Churches. Our mission is to produce Christ-exalting songs and training for the church — capital C — the whole church, not just our own. A lot of our music comes from songwriters within our local churches, which is great because there’s accountability and relationship there — we can see the need firsthand. From there, we want to serve our own churches, but also the broader church. By God’s grace, churches all over the world have been singing these songs for more than thirty years now. It’s a joy to do what we do.
Ricky: I love that. I grew up in this family of churches — I remember all the way back to cassette tapes my parents had of what became Sovereign Grace Music, and then getting a brand-new CD and dropping it into the player for the first time. Of course, listeners today don’t remember getting your tape tangled or your CD scratched and ruined forever. How long have you been serving with Sovereign Grace Music?
David: Probably the last ten or twelve years, predominantly as a drummer. I wasn’t originally from a Sovereign Grace church — I’m actually fairly new to the network. Over the last six or seven years I’ve gotten more involved in songwriting, and just recently in singing and songwriting together, which has been really sweet. I’ve been in Louisville, Kentucky — where we’re based — for about six years.
Ricky: I love that you went from drumming on albums to making albums, writing songs, and leading — gives hope to drummers everywhere that they can do it too.
David: Totally, go for it.
Ricky: You wear a lot of hats for Sovereign Grace Music. Usually somebody has one lane, but you keep jumping out of yours. You started as a drummer, you’ve written a number of songs, and if people check out Sovereign Grace’s YouTube channel, they’ll see you leading.
David: Unfortunately, you’ll see my face.
More Than a Record Label
Ricky: You also help administrate and manage, so you’ve got a unique window into what a music ministry actually is. I bet our listeners would love to go behind the curtain a bit — where do the songs we sing even come from? But before that: beyond producing songs and albums, what else does Sovereign Grace Music do?
David: That’s what I love about Sovereign Grace — we’re not just a music label, we want to be a resource to churches. We have a lot of training happening, and our website is probably the biggest place people can find that. All of our songs and charts are free to download — we don’t want there to be a paywall. Bob [Kauflin] and I also have a podcast called Sound Plus Doctrine — we’re actually filming season ten right now, so there are close to a hundred episodes. If you’re bored or can’t fall asleep, you can put those on.
But really, the podcast is a resource for anyone who plans, leads, or participates in a Sunday gathering — how do you pick songs, how do you think through managing a team, that kind of thing. My boss and friend Bob Kauflin is also well known for his book Worship Matters, which is one of the better theologically rich books written specifically for worship leaders — there aren’t many of those out there. Beyond that, we have a lot of translation work going on. Our songs are being translated into multiple languages, which is a resource for churches that aren’t using something like Planning Center or CCLI to get charts — they can come to us, get charts in their own language, and sing them in their churches.
Ricky: Excellent — and we’ll talk in a bit about how big the Spanish-speaking side of Sovereign Grace Music has become. It’s honestly unbelievable.
David: We basically call ourselves a Spanish ministry with an English arm.
Ricky: We love hearing that on the border. Now, you also host conferences throughout the year — some regional, some big national events. It’s genuinely one of the best worship events I’ve been to. I should mention, my first ministry role in the local church was playing an ancient synthesizer — so old it used cartridges you’d physically swap out to change sounds. That’s all a 13- or 14-year-old was trusted with. I’d have to yank the cartridge out and jam the next one in between songs.
David: Especially when you had to blow on the cartridges to get them to work, like an old Nintendo.
Ricky: Exactly. It was terrible — but the reason I bring it up is that so many of your resources over the years helped me, both on a heart level and a hands level. On the heart level, like any teenager, I wanted the glory — I wanted to look cool on stage, I wanted people to be impressed with my synthesizer part. Nobody was. But on the practical level, I remember going to worship conferences and getting real, hands-on help — like what do you actually do to play the synth or the piano well?
David: I’m so glad you mentioned that. We have a conference called the Worship God Conference, typically every other year in June or July, hosted in Louisville. In two weeks we’re actually running one called Your Gathering and the Gospel Conference in Southern California, October 1st through 4th. All of our conferences exist to serve the local church.
Why the Church Sings
Ricky: Let me put on a different hat for a minute, David. Pretend I’m an average church member who’s never been on a worship team, doesn’t know what a “chart” is, and just finds songs on Spotify or Apple Music. Honestly, as a kid before I was ever on a team, I sincerely thought the singing portion of the service was just the warm-up — like the pre-game music before a basketball game starts.
David: Right — dun dun dun dun dun dun.
Ricky: Exactly, and then the real game — the sermon — begins. So for someone who thinks the singing doesn’t mean much, why should the average member who’ll never play an instrument actually care about the time of singing, instead of treating it as a warm-up?
David: Great question. “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.” That passage is fascinating, because where is the teaching and admonishing coming from? From the songs we’re singing — the psalms, the hymns, the spiritual songs.
A lot of people are tempted to think of Sunday singing as purely vertical — just God and me, eyes closed, hoping the worship leader picks my favorite song so I can have my moment. But it goes beyond that to a horizontal level too — we’re actually singing to one another, stirring one another on. That’s the real work happening when we gather on Sunday morning. It’s not a warm-up — it’s more like a matter of life and death. These are the songs that will teach you, admonish you, strengthen you, shepherd you. A lot of people leave a Sunday gathering having forgotten the sermon, but remembering the music.
Ricky: That is so true. As a preacher, I’m very familiar with not remembering what I preached a month ago — but I’ll absolutely remember the new song our worship leader introduced last Sunday. There’s a staying power there. Another thing I often hear from people is, “I just don’t have a good voice, so I don’t sing much.” How would you encourage someone who feels like they’re being watched, almost like they’re on a singing competition, and just mumbles through the songs instead of engaging?
David: Two things. First — “make a joyful noise” is a great starting point. It doesn’t have to be in tune or in key. Second, and maybe I should’ve led with this: it’s commanded in Scripture. All through the Psalms we see it — sing to the Lord, sing to the Lord a new song, sing praises to His name, enter His courts with praise. That’s a compelling argument on its own.
But beyond just being a command — because a command by itself can turn into a duty rather than a delight — a church is its members unified together with one vision, to worship the Lord and encourage one another. Singing is one primary means of that worship, and it’s engagement not just with our voices but with our whole heart, mind, soul, and strength. When that happens, you’re an integral part of the body — it’s the passage about “what would the toe say to the hand, what would the eye say to the arm?” We need every single person there, all helping build up the body of Christ. For the men who fold their arms and don’t want to sing — your kids are watching, your church is watching. Join in the work God is doing in your midst. And for anyone who feels like the key is too high or they just don’t like a song, that’s an opportunity to set your preferences aside and find a way to enter in, because this is how the Lord wants to be worshiped.
Ricky: Excellent — not just the duty of it, but the delight of it too, that this is a good and beautiful thing for the church to do. I want to go back to something you mentioned — how music makes us feel. A lot of the time we can approach worship almost entirely in terms of feeling — is the synth just right, did that key change hit so I can really “soar” — almost bypassing our brains entirely. But you and Bob have emphasized, over and over, not to turn your brain off during worship. Why is it important to think carefully about the lyrics, not just the emotional feel of the music?
David: That Colossians passage again — “let the word of Christ dwell in you richly.” The Word is what transforms us. It cuts through joint and marrow, into the soul, into our hearts — it’s the only thing that actually changes us. Music itself doesn’t change us. Chords don’t change us. A great worship leader or an incredible guitar player doesn’t change our hearts — only God’s Word, by the power of His Spirit, can transform our lives. That’s what good lyrics should be doing: challenging us, encouraging us, strengthening us, compelling us. That’s the power of truth paired with music. Music helps us feel the truth — and the truth changes our lives.
Ricky: I love the intersection there. Music is one of the rare things that engages our head, heart, and hands all together — your mind engaging with the lyrics, your heart’s affections being expressed and informed, and your body — not just literally lifting your hands, though that’s great too — physically responding, vocally. It’s not just an emotional experience; the Lord is actually working on you in that moment. You’re laying out these beautiful reasons to sing — not just because the Lord commands it, though that’s good on its own, and not just for the people around you, but for yourself too, because it changes you. I’ve experienced that, walking in weary or discouraged and having God use a song to realign me.
David: Yeah — it recalibrates you, that’s a great way to put it. Something you said points to a real temptation, though — an emotionalism we’ve seen in a lot of churches. But there’s also a tendency in churches that are very truth-heavy, doctrine-heavy, reformed, to say, “I only engage my mind — that’s all I need, I’ll just hold it in like a robot.” We are emotional human beings — that’s a beautiful thing, that’s how God made us. We should grow in the truth, but we should also express it. Imagine me seeing my wife and just flatly saying, “I love you” with no feeling behind it — no. I would run to her, engage her, hold her, kiss her. So there’s a pushback needed for people who think it’s purely about truth and doctrine — God made us emotional people, and that’s wonderful.
Ricky: I think that’s also one of the reasons it’s worth the church pursuing excellence in this — it glorifies God in the effort itself. Singing can be more or less effective in how it leads people to think about, meditate on, and respond to the truth. We shouldn’t just recite truth together like data — bands should rehearse, worship leaders should pray. There’s something God-glorifying in that effort.
David: Undistracted excellence — I think John Piper coined that phrase. It’s worth it. Can you think of anything better to bring your best effort to than singing God’s truth with His people? That compels me to practice, to work hard, to bring my best.
Ricky: Shout-out to everyone getting songs ready for Sunday right now — we love you, we’re for you, and the work you’re doing isn’t a waste. I think it’s important, too, because the world clearly recognizes the powerful emotional effect music has. I remember going down a rabbit hole watching videos of people showing up almost spontaneously — like a group singing together in an empty warehouse in New York. It’s powerful and moving, you get chills — but the songs themselves often don’t have much substance. All the world can offer is the emotional response, not the truth underneath it. Those people sing, they get their chill-inducing moment, and then they just go back to their lives. It’s an escape for a minute, but it doesn’t change them — it doesn’t give them lasting hope or alleviate their weariness.
David: Right. And if you follow that all the way to the end — I can’t remember exactly who said this, I think it was Spurgeon, and I apologize if I’m misquoting — something like, “My people die well because they sing well.” I love that sentiment. These are songs that carry people through their whole lives — what we sometimes call “deathbed songs.” Are those the songs we’re introducing to our churches? Is it going to help you not just live well, and not just feel better in the moment, but die well?
Ricky: One of our pastors, John, who’s in the studio with us, often talks about wanting to introduce songs that people would want to sing around a hospital bed — substantive, true songs that don’t just pump out sunshine and ignore the difficulty of the world, but give real hope in the middle of it: this is hard, death is real, the world is broken, but there is hope in the gospel, in Christ. I think that’s one of the reasons you should care about the songs your church sings — you want them to stay with you not just for a morning or a week, but for a lifetime. I remember difficult seasons where I needed those songs in the back of my mind, preaching to me, aligning my heart and emotions with Scripture. It’s such a gift.
The Story Behind “All Things”
Ricky: One last question on this before we move into some specific songs. Imagine someone walks into church with a critical eye toward the band or the singers — thinking, “I’ll really enter into worship once the music improves, once they finally sing a good song.” I’m not saying that’s your church or mine, of course — although, honestly, it was mine. I played the synthesizer, and there was a season I was pressed into leading worship, and the honest evaluation was, “This isn’t a long-term fit — but it may serve this week, it’s better than not singing at all.” How would you encourage someone walking in on a Sunday with that kind of critical posture?
David: That is genuinely hard — there’s no easy fix-all answer. I’ve been in well-meaning, gospel-saturated, theologically sound churches where the singing was still really distracting. So let’s zoom out first: a great worshiper is great, but God doesn’t need it. A guitarist who can play beautiful pads or lead lines — that’s great, but God doesn’t need any of it. He’s seeking people who will love Him, submit to Him, and worship Him. That flattens all our preferences and desires — He doesn’t need us, but He uses us. That’s a great place to start: “Lord, I just want to bring my voice to You. You’ve given me a song to sing, so I’m going to sing it, because You’re worthy of it.” I’d sing at a football game even with a terrible voice because it’s worthy of my devotion — how much more is Christ worthy of it in our Sunday gatherings?
Then, zooming in — if your heart posture is genuinely to join in and participate, but it’s just hard because of how the music is led, I think it’s a great opportunity to have a conversation with your worship leader and get to know him. That’s why the question is tricky — you could genuinely be in a great church and it still be distracting. But trust the Lord, trust that He has you there, and if the person leading is doing their best, working hard, humble, and leading you in songs that are good for your soul — sing out.
Ricky: Excellent. All right, I want to turn the page a bit and go behind the scenes on some of the songs you’ve written — and we’ll actually get to hear your voice on a couple of them, which will be great. If you’re just joining us, we’re talking with David Zimmer, head of production and promotion with Sovereign Grace Music, about where the songs we sing on Sunday mornings actually come from. We’re going to ask you about three songs you’ve written or helped record. The first is called “All Things.” Let’s roll that, Kenny.
[Clip: “All Things” by Sovereign Grace Music]
“When my heart was cold and lifeless, and I wandered in my blindness, You pursued me. And before the world was breathing, You had chosen to redeem me, for You loved me. Lord, You love me. I know You are working — You are working all things, all things for Your glory. Lord, You will accomplish everything You promised — all things for Your glory and my good.”
Ricky: That was “All Things” by Sovereign Grace Music — a more recent, stripped-down acoustic version of the song. What was the thinking behind stripping songs back like that?
David: For churches that are smaller and only have an acoustic guitar or a piano and a couple of vocalists, we wanted to show people you don’t need a big rock band — you don’t need a drum kit, even though I play drums. Our voices are the main instrument, not the acoustic or electric guitar. So we stripped it down partly to make the lyrics a little easier to access, but also to show smaller churches that they can do it too.
Ricky: I have to tell you a quick story and then ask about the story behind the song itself. A few weeks ago, a couple in our church shared about their adoption journey — a difficult one. They thought they had everything lined up with a birth mother, flew across the country, and then it fell through. When they later shared what God was teaching them through that season, this song in particular — “All Things,” and that chorus, “I know You are working, You are working all things, all things for Your glory and our good” — became an anthem for them. I think that’s a beautiful illustration of exactly what we’ve been talking about: writing songs for moments like that. So — where did this song come from, and how did it become a congregational song?
David: It’s sobering to hear stories like that — God uses the loaves and fishes we bring Him and multiplies them. We never set out to get our songs on the radio or into huge stadiums; it’s those behind-the-scenes stories, the ones we’ll never fully know about, that move me. Thank you for sharing that.
I write predominantly with Nate Stiff — you’ve probably seen his name a lot if you follow Sovereign Grace Music. He and I have been writing together for about seven years. A lot of our songs start with us listening to the same sermon together, since he also lives in Louisville, or passing a sermon back and forth. The idea that “You are working all things” — obviously rooted in Romans 8:28 — was one we wanted to handle carefully. We didn’t just want to say “You are working all things for Your glory, my good” as a flat statement; we believed it, but we wanted the song to earn that truth, not just assert it.
We wanted to show that it’s not just “this too shall pass,” the kind of comfort people say to themselves without any real foundation. It’s that all things will work out because of who God is — because of what He’s done, what He is doing, and what He will do. That’s the power behind it — locating ourselves in that chain of God’s work from eternity past to eternity future.
And I want to mention — along with the story you shared about that couple — a lot of people assume that once you write a song for the church, you put it out into the world and that’s it. But I would never have written this song with Nate if I’d known what the next year held for me. This song carried me through eight months in bed with three disc bulges in my lower back, constant crippling pain. At the same time, we fostered a boy — we got him at six months old and had him in our home for two years — and my mother-in-law was diagnosed with a very aggressive form of cancer. It was almost like eating my own words, my own melody — realizing I needed this song more than anyone else did. Those truths carried me. I stake my life on it — He is going to use all of these circumstances for my good and His glory.
Ricky: I think it’s beautiful that you’re willing to share that vulnerability of what God took you through after writing the song, because it’s easy for us to think, “I already know that truth, I’ve got that song, move on to the next one.” But you’re saying even the guy who wrote the song from Romans 8 needs to hear it again. Even as a preacher, there are times I’ll preach a message and see something so clearly in Scripture, and then six months later, in my own battle with chronic pain or something else, I need someone to preach that same thing back to me. That connects beautifully to Colossians 3 — we need to sing not just to the Lord but to one another, and we need others to sing to us.
There’s a wonderful woman in our church, Mrs. Wheeler, who’s been part of the church for decades — she drives the furthest of anyone to get there. She’s older now, she’s lost her husband, she’s been through many trials. But every Sunday I see her singing with real feeling to songs like “All Things,” and it does something in my heart. She’s decades ahead of me, she’s seen far more of life, and she’s still singing it out.
The Story Behind “Sing”
Ricky: That’s the song “All Things.” Next up, we’re going to pull up “Sing” — which connects nicely, going from all things in the hardest seasons to a broader view of why and when to sing to the Lord. Let’s roll “Sing” by Sovereign Grace Music, Kenny.
[Clip: “Sing” by Sovereign Grace Music]
“As the dawn awakes, does your heart still beat? Is the mighty Word of the living God upholding you? So sing, oh sing. The Father’s love fills your longing heart with grace for every need. Come and lay your burdens at Jesus’ feet and find new strength to sing, sing. Morning and evening, everything breathing must sing. All of creation, rise up and praise the King of kings and Savior. As the Son of God had to take away your sin and set you free, as the conqueror trembled over death is Christ, and from the grave He rose. Everything breathing must sing for the Savior — all of creation, rise up and praise the King of kings and Savior.”
Ricky: That was “Sing” by Sovereign Grace Music, and we’ve got one of its writers right here with us — David Zimmer. Give us the story behind this one — what was the heart of it, and how did it come together?
David: It was a joy to write this one. We were recording our album Knowing God, based on J.I. Packer’s book of the same name, and we were getting to the final stages of that project. We typically bring around two hundred songs to the table over a two-year process and whittle that down to about twelve for the record — it takes a lot. We realized we didn’t have a strong call to worship, the kind of song you’d open a service with — basically, a banger, something to compel people right out of the gate.
At the time, I was reading through Packer’s Knowing God, which is an incredible book if you’ve never read it, and at the same time I was reading The Rare Jewel of Christian Contentment by Jeremiah Burroughs — an old Puritan, another great one. There’s a section — really the whole book is built around this — where he asks, essentially, why are you complaining? He builds this compelling case: are you alive? Did you open your eyes this morning? Can you stand, walk, move, breathe? And it keeps going — are you saved, are you a Christian, do you have eternal security? That kind of ripple effect, starting with the biggest realities and working down to the smallest ones.
I immediately texted Nate and said, “Bro, we need a song that gives people reasons to sing.” And then the chorus is simple — we just do it, we just sing. He wrote the lyrics, we did some editing, he sent me a final version, and I sat down at the piano — I think within ten minutes I had a melody. That almost never happens that fast. That’s how the song came to be. We brought it to the team, it got evaluated, and it ended up as the opening track on the record. I hope it serves churches by giving people compelling reasons to sing.
Ricky: You should know — you’re a legend in my household. I have three boys, ages six to thirteen, a tough crowd for worship music some days, and their favorite song is “Sing.” We often use it as a service opener, and my middle son, Cohen, will look over at me and nod, like, “Yeah, this is finally a good service.”
Now I want to play a couple of quick clips — just thirty seconds or so — to highlight that Sovereign Grace Music also puts out wonderful Christmas and Advent albums. Let’s roll a clip of “Away in a Manger (All Glory to Jesus).”
[Clip: “Away in a Manger (All Glory to Jesus)” by Sovereign Grace Music]
“When a mortal baby is born, the sovereign of heaven, whom angels adore, is wrapped in the wheel…”
Ricky: That was “Away in a Manger, All Glory to Jesus” by Sovereign Grace Music. I wanted to play that because Advent is one of our favorite seasons at Cross and Grace. John, one of our pastors here in the studio — are you already listening to Christmas music?
David: Absolutely, he says — crazy, right? If you’re a music person at your church, this is about the time of year you start thinking about Christmas, even though we’re technically still in September, October, November. Definitely go check that album out. One of our twenty-somethings told me she grew to love Sovereign Grace Music specifically through the Christmas albums — and it became more than warm, fuzzy feelings around the tree. It gave real meaning back to the season, to who Christ is and what He’s done.
A Spanish Ministry with an English Arm
Ricky: Please go check those out. Last clip I want to play — honestly, we could do a whole interview on this alone — is a Spanish-language worship song, “Déjanos Ver,” by Gracia Soberana Música, Sovereign Grace Music’s Spanish ministry. Kenny, roll that clip for us.
[Clip: “Déjanos Ver” by Gracia Soberana Música]
“Santo Espíritu de Dios, junto al Padre estás, luz radiante, celestial…”
Ricky: And we’re back — that was “Déjanos Ver” by Gracia Soberana Música, Sovereign Grace Music in Spanish. We’ve talked this whole interview without even mentioning what God’s doing through Sovereign Grace Music in Latin America. We’ve got about four minutes left — can you give us a condensed overview of how God is using this ministry in Latin America right now?
David: It’s been incredible to see — so many churches being planted and formed, coming to a reformed faith, coming to a deeper understanding of God’s Word, His worth, and His work. Churches across Latin America have been growing rapidly through Spanish-language resources, through Gracia Soberana Música. There’s clearly been a huge need there. I joked earlier that we’re a Spanish organization with an English arm — and honestly, it’s true. About ten of our top thirteen most-watched songs on YouTube are in Spanish.
A lot of that growth has come through translation. We have an incredible translation team headed up by Fabricio Rodolfo, based in Louisville with us, along with about thirteen other guys who are deeply passionate about doing that work well.
Ricky: And I can testify — it’s not just running lyrics through Google Translate. It’s crafted carefully in Spanish, and it makes all the difference.
David: Totally — it’s amazing. My wife is bilingual, and so many times she’ll be in tears by the end of a song, saying it’s so much better in Spanish.
Ricky: I’m biased, being a border pastor, but I do think the songs sound better in Spanish.
David: Which is awesome — it’s the Lord’s work, marvelous in our eyes. And it’s not just translation anymore. We don’t always want to be writing songs in English and translating them into Spanish — we’re actively investing in Spanish-language songwriters. We just released a record called Himnos, thirteen classic hymns that we hope will be a bedrock foundation for our Spanish-speaking brothers and sisters. We’re also releasing a new record, probably next year or the year after, called Efesios — based entirely on Ephesians, all original songs.
Ricky: This has been a blast.
David: Yeah — SovereignGraceMusic.com is where people can find all of it.
This interview originally recorded at KELP Studios in El Paso, TX for the program 915 Talk – a production of desert voice media.